Type 45 question

[Sea Dragon]

First of all, a hello to everyone on the board. I have been playing Fleet command for a while and Naval warfare since around the end of May. Overall i am very impressed with the patch and i doubt theres much that someone, with as limited a knowledge of other countries, like myself can help. However i do have a question;

Why does the Type-45 not have 8 Harpoon. She is definately fitted for but not with Harpoon and regardless she does easily have space for 2x4 SSM launchers. I know this could come down to "fitted for but not with". Yet in the game you have given her both her CIWS, 20mm's and her Torpedo tubes. Currently she has her Helicopter, 4.5inch and of course the Slyver launchers.

Also Numerous ships in the Royal Navy (HMS Ocean, The Albians i believe and the Type-23's) have just had an upgrade consisting of radar, engine and numerous other upgrades.
The Type-23's are due to have another small calliber (20mm) gun installed that features thermal and night vision sensors and remote control abilities from the opps room. As i can't find an upgraded version of the Type-23's do the in game stock ships have these upgrades or have the not been done yet? (the 20mm gun isnt all that important but engine and sensor upgrades are very telling. Can't engage if you can't get there... Can't engage if you can't see it!)

That also reminds me Sea Wolf is due for a revamp of its sensor suit and weapon capability, this will allow it to continue to be used untill CAAM's is developed. Will this be adopted into the game?

I know these sound like small changes but i was just wondering? Sorry if this should be in unit requests, its not really a request for units more an enquiry into the current status of some of the units we do have.

Thank you

[Mike D]

First of all, a hello to everyone on the board. I have been playing Fleet command for a while and Naval warfare since around the end of May. Overall i am very impressed with the patch and i doubt theres much that someone, with as limited a knowledge of other countries, like myself can help. However i do have a question;

Why does the Type-45 not have 8 Harpoon. She is definately fitted for but not with Harpoon and regardless she does easily have space for 2x4 SSM launchers. I know this could come down to "fitted for but not with". Yet in the game you have given her both her CIWS, 20mm's and her Torpedo tubes. Currently she has her Helicopter, 4.5inch and of course the Slyver launchers.

Also Numerous ships in the Royal Navy (HMS Ocean, The Albians i believe and the Type-23's) have just had an upgrade consisting of radar, engine and numerous other upgrades.
The Type-23's are due to have another small calliber (20mm) gun installed that features thermal and night vision sensors and remote control abilities from the opps room. As i can't find an upgraded version of the Type-23's do the in game stock ships have these upgrades or have the not been done yet? (the 20mm gun isnt all that important but engine and sensor upgrades are very telling. Can't engage if you can't get there... Can't engage if you can't see it!)

That also reminds me Sea Wolf is due for a revamp of its sensor suit and weapon capability, this will allow it to continue to be used untill CAAM's is developed. Will this be adopted into the game?

I know these sound like small changes but i was just wondering? Sorry if this should be in unit requests, its not really a request for units more an enquiry into the current status of some of the units we do have.

Thank you

Yeah, that was a judgment call. The Type 45 has mounts, wiring and even some of the electronics already installed but the MOD decided to hold off on the actual weapons due to cost. (A bit silly a warship without weapons.) But the MODs plan was if a Type 45 had to go into harms-way there would be time to fit the weapons. (Again a bit daft.) So I used that assumption and built the Type 45 fully fitted out. But what if there isn't time... Or there is a snap engagement. I don't like it but there it is. I may rethink it though.

[Warship NWS]

Yeah, that was a judgment call. The Type 45 has mounts, wiring and even some of the electronics already installed but the MOD decided to hold off on the actual weapons due to cost. (A bit silly a warship without weapons.) But the MODs plan was if a Type 45 had to go into harms-way there would be time to fit the weapons. (Again a bit daft.) So I used that assumption and built the Type 45 fully fitted out. But what if there isn't time... Or there is a snap engagement. I don't like it but there it is. I may rethink it though.

To Mike and the players,

My few cents.. FC/NWP is designed to simulate a naval war going on.. not peace going on, that would be pretty darn boring. I say go with the most likely war load armament. Note, hypothetical weapon load outs are one thing.. weapons that can be deployed within a quick port call is another. Stick with sound judgement and plausible considerations.

Thanks.

[Sea Dragon]

To warship NWS, that was the point i was trying to make. Though perhaps i was not clear. The Type 45 is fitted for but not with in a large number of areas. CIWS, Torpedo Tubes, 20mm guns and Harpoon. My question was why if the team had placed in all of those weapons had the harpoon been left out? That was the main question concerning the Type 45.

Although i would happily discuss the reasons for what the MOD is doing and the wisdom or lack there off this is probs not the place.

Other than that i was wondering if the new sensor/engine upgrades to ships across the navy (Ocean, Albions, Type 23's) and the revamp of Sea wolf would be factored into the next build. Its not really new ships i know and hence the seperate post? I know the upgrades with the engines would be easy enough to do, i was just wondering if the other upgrades currently happening where left out because of the difficult in showing the more powerful ability in the sensors and trackers on the ships (Type 23 in particular). Simply because although weapons seem more important, a large part in Naval warfare is WHAT you can see. You can't engage it untill you see it and sensors are therefore a big part in this?

If a reference is needed i will happily quote official sources containing the information.


To Mike D, The same model is used for the different Burke variations? Why not do something similar. A T-45 entry off the shelve, and a T-45 fully kitted out with SSM, SAM, 20mm, Phalanx, Torpedo Tubes and the 114mm gun. Put all 6 in both entries and allow the person to choose. Ie in a wartime senario....kitted out. In a middle eastern patrol senario (not sure why a warship that size would be risked in gulf in peace time mind) have the off the shelve variant?

[Mike D]

My question was why if the team had placed in all of those weapons had the harpoon been left out? That was the main question concerning the Type 45.

Wait, memory is tweaking me. Wasn't the Harpoon requirement totally deleted from the Type 45? I remember something about that.


Other than that i was wondering if the new sensor/engine upgrades to ships across the navy (Ocean, Albions, Type 23's) and the revamp of Sea wolf would be factored into the next build. Its not really new ships i know and hence the seperate post? I know the upgrades with the engines would be easy enough to do, i was just wondering if the other upgrades currently happening where left out because of the difficult in showing the more powerful ability in the sensors and trackers on the ships (Type 23 in particular). Simply because although weapons seem more important, a large part in Naval warfare is WHAT you can see. You can't engage it untill you see it and sensors are therefore a big part in this?


Hadn't thought about it.


To Mike D, The same model is used for the different Burke variations? Why not do something similar. A T-45 entry off the shelve, and a T-45 fully kitted out with SSM, SAM, 20mm, Phalanx, Torpedo Tubes and the 114mm gun. Put all 6 in both entries and allow the person to choose. Ie in a wartime senario....kitted out. In a middle eastern patrol senario (not sure why a warship that size would be risked in gulf in peace time mind) have the off the shelve variant?

Let me think about that one.

[Warship NWS]

As far as what could be fitted and what would be fitted can be a matter of conjecture during a wartime deployment, especially with port side modifications that can be quickly put into play. It is up to Mike D if he wants to put in variations of the same class to show for different weapon loadouts, much like aircraft, depending on the most likely canidate weapons. That is where the sound judgement and plausible considerations come into play. If a country fits a platform to carry Harpoons but the nation barely has any and would have to rely on emergency shipments .. well, that might not be a plausible solution in a modern naval combat arena due to a rapidly developing naval crisis. My point above however is that if the nation keeps such weapons in ready stock in case of a crisis and they can be quickly fitted out for deployment then a variation should be considered.

[Sea Dragon]

Wait, memory is tweaking me. Wasn't the Harpoon requirement totally deleted from the Type 45? I remember something about that.

PAAM's doesn't have integrated Surface attack compatibility. However i was under the impression that that was known all along and the extra guidance for Harpoon was pretty much already installed. You could however be correct about that one.


To Warship NWS, The type 23's are armed with Harpoon. So are the SSN's and the up coming A class boats. It is not unlikely for the UK to have a large amount of ammunition. The Royal Navy has quite a bit squirelled away.

Either way, i wasn't meaning to be pushy. I understand the Design team probabley has a lot on their hands. I just remember that Harpoon was in the T-45's specs and a lot of Offical websites still have it in the specifications. Just a general enquiry.

[Warship NWS]

To Sea Dragon, your not being pushy at all. NWP is a project aimed at modern naval combat enthusiasts like ourselves so we appreciate professionaly worded and constructive conversations on the topic that can possibly help with our work.

[Sea Dragon]

Good :), last thing i want is to offend anyone. As to professionaly worded, well i'm just a 20 year old who's at Uni and wants to join the Navy as an officer. So i doubt i know that much compared to you guys. :)

[Citadelvette]

I recall the T-45 has the space and electronics for Harpoon but the MOD decided that since it was a AAW Destroyer it didn't need that ASUW capabilty so they are not planning to deploy them. However if I remember correctly the electronics were already installed and the deck configured to hold the launchers at the ime of decision so they could be installed at somepoint.

[Sea Dragon]

Did the electronics include a sensor platform? Just because i know PAAM's can't direct a Harpoon SSM. So unless there was another sensor that could do so the Daring class DDG couldn't engage a target even if it had them.

Or so i get the impression from what i have read.

[Tibe]

Basically is you have the fire control system for harpoons and some datum of the target from other sources like helicopter or other friendly unit by mean of data link you could have a target solution....beside the point of power, wiring, and actual ammo

The sensor issues you describe about T-23 is correct with my info, they were upgraded in the fire control director and the ammo (sea wolf 2) and still is a big question for me how sensor works on FC so we have to wait...and see

[Sea Dragon]

Yup, my bad forgot that Harpoon was basically a fire and forget weapon with its on seeking equipment. So that stands to reason that with the Type 23's, 22's having them. The T class and the upcoming A class being armed with them that there would be enough weapons stockpiled for the T-45's to be armed rapidly with them from a port in a warzone.


As regards the Type-23's sensors not only are the Sea wolf fire control sensors being improved but also the Passive towed array is to be replaced by a new variable depth very low frequency Active array.

The new sonars could certainley be changed in the next update for NWS im sure?

[Tibe]

Heheh...it would be nice a new T-23 units with improved sonar 2087 and sensors (fire control and sea wolf2) so we could "pray" for such unit in the next release

[Sea Dragon]

Not to mention an update for the increased sensor suite and engine upgrade the HMS ocean has gone through. We can all wish i guess.

I do however understand that this is a naval simulation with a great many nations to deal with and while i could reel off a long list on the updates the Royal Navy is doing for its ships. I doubt the developers would like that. Especially as although i understand the updates in real life, i really cant translate them into the simulation programing!!