Problem with my own little mod.

[Dragunov]

Hi,
i tried the NWP mod for Fleet Command. Its great but a little bit too complex for me, so i modded Fleet Command by myself. I changed only a few things.

One problem i have is that when i launch aircraft after they returned from a mission, they only got one sort of ammunition. For example i launch a F-18 from a carrier with guns, Sidewinder, Amraam and Harpoon (ASUW), the next time i launch it, it is only armed with guns and Harpoon (ASUW).


Thx in advance.

[paladin5]

Hi,
i tried the NWP mod for Fleet Command. Its great but a little bit too complex for me, so i modded Fleet Command by myself. I changed only a few things.

One problem i have is that when i launch aircraft after they returned from a mission, they only got one sort of ammunition. For example i launch a F-18 from a carrier with guns, Sidewinder, Amraam and Harpoon (ASUW), the next time i launch it, it is only armed with guns and Harpoon (ASUW).


Thx in advance.


NWP isn't much more complex then the standard version of Fleet Command, the changes between the two just take a little getting used to, especially the stealthy aircraft.

[Fleet Command CC]

Hi,
i tried the NWP mod for Fleet Command. Its great but a little bit too complex for me, so i modded Fleet Command by myself. I changed only a few things.

One problem i have is that when i launch aircraft after they returned from a mission, they only got one sort of ammunition. For example i launch a F-18 from a carrier with guns, Sidewinder, Amraam and Harpoon (ASUW), the next time i launch it, it is only armed with guns and Harpoon (ASUW).


Thx in advance.

What changes did you make, also are you modding with the NWP or without?

[Mike D]

Sorry but we don't allow discussion about database editing.

[Fleet Command CC]

Sorry but we don't allow discussion about database editing.

Hey Mike about the above I ask Warship NWS this back in Feb and he said.


but you can discuss editing your own personal databases if you want. We have never "forbidden" such discussions.

Check the link

http://forums.navalwarfare.org/showthread.php?t=19

Isn't that what Dragunov is doing discussing how he has edited is own db files, and is only asking for some help from someone that is willing to help him.

Now I'm more confused, the moderator is saying we can't and the site administrator the owner is saying we can. :confused:

[Warship NWS]

Just to clarify,

1) We do not discuss NWP database editing on our forums as there are many parts of our work that are not disclosed to the public and that are not part of the original FC configurations so making changes to a NWP database case cause problems with or without your knowing about it. Obviously there is no way for the NWP team to help with tech support in such cases.

2) You can discuss editing your own personal databases, example; non-NWP databases. In this case, you at you own risk but please do not ask for our assistance in doing so as our team has enough to do as it is. Note though this is not an invitation to advertise competing projects so a measure of professional courtesy is required for posting on our forums.

Hopefully this clarifies our policies on this topic.

Thanks.

[Fleet Command CC]

Just to clarify,

Thanks Warship NWS

I'm not confused now, its nice and clean to me now and I hope it will be for others has well. :):D:)

Thanks again niceone. ;)

[Fleet Command CC]

Hi,
i tried the NWP mod for Fleet Command. Its great but a little bit too complex for me, so i modded Fleet Command by myself. I changed only a few things.

One problem i have is that when i launch aircraft after they returned from a mission, they only got one sort of ammunition. For example i launch a F-18 from a carrier with guns, Sidewinder, Amraam and Harpoon (ASUW), the next time i launch it, it is only armed with guns and Harpoon (ASUW).


Thx in advance.

Hey Dragunov

If you would like some help with your mod ask on my friends web site. ( www.gulfknight.net )

[Dragunov]

I edited a clean installation of Fleet Command. Many things of NWP are great, but some things bother me.

I only changed some ranges and velocities of missiles, added cannons to CADS, added SS-N-22 to SU-33 and so on.

And i changed the load of the F-18 to only two AIM-9, two AIM-120 and four Harpoons in the anti ship config. Cant imagine what causes the problem of not rearming aircraft after landing.

[Fleet Command CC]

I edited a clean installation of Fleet Command. Many things of NWP are great, but some things bother me.

I only changed some ranges and velocities of missiles, added cannons to CADS, added SS-N-22 to SU-33 and so on.

And i changed the load of the F-18 to only two AIM-9, two AIM-120 and four Harpoons in the anti ship config. Cant imagine what causes the problem of not rearming aircraft after landing.

Hey Dragunov

Email me your modify database folder, and I will try it out for you, to see if I can find the problem for you. :)

( fleetcommandcc@aol.co.uk )

[Warship NWS]

To Dragonuv,

I would highly recommend not altering the NWP files or asking for help with editing them on these forums. There are a lot of reasons why we design the NWP files the way we do and we do not disclose all of the details behind our work and even a simple change that might seem harmless to you can have serious negative effects on whether you see them immediately or not.

As a side note, the SS-N-22 has NEVER been carried "live" by the Su-33. According to most reliable sources it was a publicity stunt using an inert missile. The performance of the Su-33 would be seriously degraded trying to carry such a large and heavy missile to start with.

As to other things you think might be incorrect.. your free to comment on them but please bring reasonably reliable and authoritative sources with you. The NWP team does not just toss numbers out there for the fun of it, a lot of research is involved with every system included in our work.

Thank you.

[Dragunov]

It was a clean FC installation what i changed.


What alternative do the Russians have as an air launched long range anti ship missile?

Since you researched so much you could answer me this question: How many Harpoons would be needed to overcome the defenses of a Kirov class cruiser and hit one missile if they are started at the same time?


Thx in advance

Dragunov

[Warship NWS]

To Dragunov.. without someone actually trying it in real shooting war noone can say for certain what it would take to mission kill a Kirov - a hard kill is not required. Realitisicaly, in a shooting war Harpoons would likely only be a part of the attack, if it is not engaged already by Mk48s, or depending on the year, TASMs. Too many variables to ask such a question as a lot can depend on angles of attack, Kirov EMCON status, escorting ships (the Kirov never sailed alone), the year (the Kirov class underwent quite a few updates), environment conditions, EW conditions, multi-weapon coordinated TOT engagements, crew quality, equipment reliability, etc..

Thanks.

[Warship NWS]

To Dragunov.. without someone actually trying it in real shooting war noone can say for certain what it would take to mission kill a Kirov - hard kill is not required. Realitisicaly, in a shooting war Harpoons would likely only be a part of the attack, if it is not engaged already by Mk48s, or depending on the year, TASMs. Too many variables to ask such a question as a lot can depend on angles of attack, Kirov EMCON status, escorting ships (the Kirov never sailed alone), the year (the Kirov class underwent quite a few updates), environment conditions, crew quality, equipment reliability, etc..

Thanks.

[Mike D]

Since you researched so much you could answer me this question: How many Harpoons would be needed to overcome the defenses of a Kirov class cruiser and hit one missile if they are started at the same time?


Thx in advance

Dragunov

No way to tell the answer to this. What generation of Harpoon, what is the weather and sea state like, are there other ships/aircraft to track the inbound Harpoons. What is the relationship of the Harpoon to the Kirov, off the port or starboard, fore or aft, off the quarter. How much fuel is left in the Harpoon upon impact. Are the Kirovs ECM systems up and hot, How about CM systems are they ready and in a good position to decoy off missiles? Are the radars up and active? Are the CIWS clear and active and have a clear shot. How many Harpoons are inbound, are they clustered or strung out, are they from the same or different directions. How good is the crew, are they fatigued or alert. Are all the systems in the CIC 100% working. What are the damage control teams and systems like. You get the point, there are too many factors to give even an approximate number. I can tell you that in NWP it takes 15 actual hits from a AGM-84D to 'kill' a Kirov but this is nothing more then an educated guess as no one has actually shot a Kirov before. But to get 15 hits you may have to fire 15-50 missiles depending on the situation. All of this assumes that the Harpoons had a good launch and actually were able to engage the Kirov and didn't just fly off on a mistaken bearing and totally miss.

Rarely are missiles fired in a cluster in real-life from the same bearing, they tend to bump into each other. Capabilities in NWP are pretty well modeled so try putting 4 Burkes against a single Kirov and see what happens. Even with 4 Burkes it almost imposable to kill a Kirov but the Kirov can pretty well wipe out the Burkes. Throw in 2-4 Ticos and it might be even. That's why carriers have become the primary ASUW platform. If you use a EA-6B and jam the Kirov, launch some AGM-88 HARMs to go for the radar while going in low with Harpoons in the same launch wave. Now you can get to the Kirov much easier.

This is the kind of stuff we have to consider when we design units and systems for NWP.

[Warship NWS]

The part I would add is that it would likely only take 4-8 Harpoon hits to mission kill a Kirov depending on their terminal attack profile and impact location on the ship. Each hit would be the equivelant of a 1000lb GP bomb slamming into the ship, not including unspent missile fuel. If a pop-up profile is used one could hit the SS-N-19 Shipwreck missile VLS system or one of the VLS SAM systems and cause a real problem. Russian ships were also known for being fairly flammable and with poor DC systems/training. The Kirov might have an impressive array of weaponary on paper but if it took a few good well placed hits it would likely have been put out of action. Remember, AShMs are NOT designed to sink ships.. much easier, cheaper, and more cost effective to mission kill a warship and with no time to make major repairs it is as good as dead if hit hard enough.

[Dragunov]

I can imagine that it depends on many factors. What i meant is under optimal conditions like you will find them in FC or NWP. There your crew is always the same and your radar is either on or off.

Dont know how the sea state affects the track of an sea skimming missle in FC.

The idea with the Prower is very good. I didnt know that i can jam a Kirov, but what range does the jammer have. The Grumble sam perhaps kills the Prowler before it comes in jamming range.

Is the radar kill ability of a Harm missile also modelled in FC or is it only a feature of NWP?