Military pay scales

[john964]

Originally Posted by djcyclone

I am not sure about NCO. If I remember right you had to be a chief (E-7) before you could transfer to a warrent officer. I do not remember what rank you had to be in order to qualify for becoming an officer. You have too really be a hot shot sailor before they will allow you to swap.

The lowest rank at which a person can be come a Warrent Officer is E-6. I know this because we had 3 E-6's become Warrents one was a Yeoman one was a Bo'sen and the last was a Gas Turbine Tech

[Ed Rotondaro]

Originally Posted by john964

The lowest rank at which a person can be come a Warrent Officer is E-6. I know this because we had 3 E-6's become Warrents one was a Yeoman one was a Bo'sen and the last was a Gas Turbine Tech

John and DJ:

Maybe I'm confused here. I'm curious as to what navy rank equals either a corporal or sergeant. NCO not warrant officer. I know that they are a separate rank structure altogether.

[Scott Chisholm]

Ed,

The Navy is a bit different from the Army and Marines with the way they treat certain enlisted and officer paygrades.

In the USA/USMC an E-6 is called "Sergeant" and is afforded the privileges of a "Non-Commissioned Officer", or NCO. That distinction does not exist in the USN. Instead, at paygrade E-7 you enter the ranks of "Chief Petty Officer" which is a positively huge deal.

Chiefs are the closest thing the USN has to NCOs. On Amphibs it can get a bit dicey if the ship and Marines do not work out some sort of arrangement as the Marines would consider it completely proper for their Sergeants to sleep in CPO berthing and eat in the Chief's Mess, whereas a First Class Petty Officer (USN E-6) would be flayed alive for even considering doing so. We had a hell of a time on USS LA MOURE COUNTY (LST 1194) as my CO flatly refused to have ANY E-6 sleep/eat with his Chiefs. The Marines were graceful enough to not push the issue.

On the officer side of the house, the USA/USMC break officers into three categories: Junior Grade, Field Grade, and Flag Grade. The USN breaks them into Junior Officer, Senior Officer, and Flag Officer.

The rub is the break between Junior Grade/Field Grade and Junior Officer/Senior Officer. In the USA/USMC you become Field Grade at the rank of Major (O-4). But, in the USN, you are not considered a "Senior Officer" until you reach Commander (O-5); Lieutenant Commanders (USN O-4s) are still considered "Junior Officers" in the USN.

That is why USA/USMC Majors have "scrambled eggs" on their hats and USN Lieutenant Commanders do not: you must be a Senior Officer to wear scrambled eggs (braiding) on your hat. Another huge deal as you now rate getting "bonged' on and off any ship you board, even if you are not in command. There are some other perks as well....

There are various enlisted commissioning programs in the USN, but as John964 stated you must be E-6 or above to apply. Competition is tight, and it really does help to be a minority (a statement, not a judgement) as there are programs specifically targeted at minorities.

To further muddy the waters, there are two additional "Officer" programs: Warrant Officer (WO) and Limited Duty Officer (LDO). Both are intended to make officers out of hot-running enlisted folks, but there are some programs that take people off the street and make them LDOs in very specific fields. That program, called Direct Input Limited Duty Officer (with the correspondingly unfortunate acronym "DILDO"), was used in the Nuclear Power field to get instructors to teach non-shipboard courses at Nuke Power School. I'm sure it is used elsewhere, but I have never encountered any non-nuke DILDOs.

Getting back to WOs, they are given a "warrant" to serve in a capactity between the Chief Petty Officers and Officers in a specific field (Engineering, Aerospace, Admin, Medicine, etc.) where they bring a wealth of technical expertise to the table. They often have the title "Technical Assistant". When I was Main Propulsion Assistant on the CVN, I had a W-2 (the Warrant ranks go W-1 through W-5) "Mechanical Technical Assistant" who did his dead level best to keep me out of trouble, which was a full time job for him.

As Warrant Officers are officers by warrant, they cannot hold command. Limited Duty Officers are exactly like WOs except they are given a commission just as any other Line Officer. Again, they are commmissioned to serve in a specific field, but are otherwise treated just like any other officer on the ship. If in a "Line" field (Engineering, Combat Systems, etc.) they stand Bridge/Engineering watches just as the other Line officers do. LDOs can have command, but generally not of a ship unless the ship has a very specific and limited mission (such as a floating drydock).

One mistake young officers just out of college make is to misunderstand the whole LDO/WO community. The first time a 24 year old JG tells an LDO Ensign (who was probably a Senior Chief last year and has kids the same age as the JG) to fetch him a cup of coffee usually the last - much to the amusement of those in the vicinity at the time....

I hope this answers some of your questions.

[djcyclone]

Originally Posted by Ed Rotondaro

DJ:

Didn't you guys give him a GI shower (i.e. rub him down with steel wool?). That kinda crap is only acceptable in the field, not on a ship.

That kind of stuff does not go down anymore unless it really gets bad. Hazzing is frowned on quite a bit in the Military today. Even getting SHELLBACKED is a lot easier in today's Navy.

I am kind of glad that kind of stuff does not go on. When I first arrived on my ship, they had been on Tour for 3 months. I finished the last 3 months and traveled across the Atlantic back home. There was another sailor on board who had the same last name as me, only spelled different. The first time I turned in my laundry, everything got messed up and they returned my laundry to him. I only had about 5 pairs t-shirts, and underware, and the ships store was fresh out of supply. I knew that I could not turn in the rest of my clothes for wash becuase then I would have nothing, and so I just did the best I could with what I had. I was taking two showers a day, but eventually my clothes started to stink. I felt HORRIBLE, but everyone that I worked with understood and as soon as we reached port I threw all my clothes away, and puchased all new ones.

There are alot of things that I have heard of from Navy folk that have been retired for 20 years or so. They can tell some interesting stories, but the Navy has really cut back on the hazzing story. Too many people are growing up in really hard life styles, and when they join the military they are fully aware of how too (Street Fight). When people will try to haze them on board a ship, the ship ends up having 5 or 6 other sailors on limited duty because they found out how tough they where not even with 4 or 5 of their buddys. They the Navy just has a Jag case to take care of, because the attacked sailor will sue for their rights.

It is easier to just avoid the whole hazing story all together.

[djcyclone]

Originally Posted by Ed Rotondaro

DJ:

You're out of service these days right? What do you do now? Just curious.

I am a dissabled Vet now. I am 50% percent dissabled by military standerds. I have been driving a Semi on and off for the last 4 years, but on June 1 I will be able to finally start a desk job, and stop tormenting my body.

I have finally been given a job for the State that I live in. It only took 8 months of waiting, and going to 14 different interviews, plus scoring straight A's on about 18 different qualifying test.

I have really been riding on a thin thread as far as pushing my body to do the job of driving Semi's. But I know that if I continue to do this my magic clock will run out eventually, and I will have to deal with far more pain while trying to work, so I finally decided to switch to a desk job and take it easy.

[john964]

Originally Posted by Ed Rotondaro

John and DJ:

Maybe I'm confused here. I'm curious as to what navy rank equals either a corporal or sergeant. NCO not warrant officer. I know that they are a separate rank structure altogether.

Ed, since Vietnam the lines of rank were really blured, during Nam the USA had ranks called Specialist 4, 5 & 6 they are equal to Corporal, Sergeant and Staff Sergeant. Only Spec4 is still used. In the USN you have three different enlisted catagories they are Seaman, Petty Officers and Chief Petty Officer. E1 to E3 are Seaman Recruit, Seaman Apprentice and Seaman. E4 to E6 are Petty Officer 3rd class, Petty Officer 2nd class and Petty Officer 1st class. E7 to E9 are Chief Petty Officer, Sr Chief Petty Officer and Master Chief Petty Officer.

[asnrobert]

Originally Posted by djcyclone

That kind of stuff does not go down anymore unless it really gets bad. Hazzing is frowned on quite a bit in the Military today. Even getting SHELLBACKED is a lot easier in today's Navy.

I am kind of glad that kind of stuff does not go on. When I first arrived on my ship, they had been on Tour for 3 months. I finished the last 3 months and traveled across the Atlantic back home. There was another sailor on board who had the same last name as me, only spelled different. The first time I turned in my laundry, everything got messed up and they returned my laundry to him. I only had about 5 pairs t-shirts, and underware, and the ships store was fresh out of supply. I knew that I could not turn in the rest of my clothes for wash becuase then I would have nothing, and so I just did the best I could with what I had. I was taking two showers a day, but eventually my clothes started to stink. I felt HORRIBLE, but everyone that I worked with understood and as soon as we reached port I threw all my clothes away, and puchased all new ones.

There are alot of things that I have heard of from Navy folk that have been retired for 20 years or so. They can tell some interesting stories, but the Navy has really cut back on the hazzing story. Too many people are growing up in really hard life styles, and when they join the military they are fully aware of how too (Street Fight). When people will try to haze them on board a ship, the ship ends up having 5 or 6 other sailors on limited duty because they found out how tough they where not even with 4 or 5 of their buddys. They the Navy just has a Jag case to take care of, because the attacked sailor will sue for their rights.

It is easier to just avoid the whole hazing story all together.

The only kind of 'hazing' I saw in the sub service (with the exception of the crossing the equator, which I declined to participate in) was the 'tacking on' of one's dolphins (the submarine pin) when you became qualified in submarines. I had the wind knocked out of me a couple times but it was no big deal (although I think most of my shipmates pulled their punches since I was kind of scrawny at the time- 120-125 lbs). Unfortunately, there were some who went overboard (one sailor was really bruised up from one hit) which spoiled it for everyone.

[djcyclone]

Originally Posted by asnrobert

The only kind of 'hazing' I saw in the sub service (with the exception of the crossing the equator, which I declined to participate in) was the 'tacking on' of one's dolphins (the submarine pin) when you became qualified in submarines. I had the wind knocked out of me a couple times but it was no big deal (although I think most of my shipmates pulled their punches since I was kind of scrawny at the time- 120-125 lbs). Unfortunately, there were some who went overboard (one sailor was really bruised up from one hit) which spoiled it for everyone.

The only Hazing that I was exposed to was the increase in rank to Petty Officer. Everyone comes by and punches you on the arm to make sure your bird stays on. I never did get to cross the Equator, and I am glad. I have heard storys of such events, and there would have been some sorry "BEEEEEEEEEEEP'ers" on my ship if they had tried some of the things I have heard about. Some of the stuff is harmless, like running around the ship, but they get physical on some things and that would not have flew with me. I am one of the sailors that I mentioned in my last post (knowing full well how too street fight, and having a considerable amount of expierience plus I have never lost, and I would not have started then.) I am 6'5" and weighed 260 pounds during my time of service, plus I have a vary bad temper. All of this equals many people going to see the doc.

The ship would have had to stop multiple times for Man overboard drills if they had tried anything with me as I worked on the bridge and the side rail was not so large that a person could not be thrown over it, and the sailor swimming would have been lucky to recieve that. Unlucky personel would had to have worn cast for broken bones by the time I was done. Just hope that you catch me on the bridge, because then you just get to go for a swim, but catch me inside the ship and hope that you are able to run fast.

No I am not bragging, but just giving a run down on why I was not hazed in the military.